This week Chris and Walt tackle the subject of Marvel versus DC. The boys are reacting to the discussion in last week’s post’s comments field about DC readers being smarter than Marvel readers.
So? What did you think of this week’s show? Please let us know your thoughts in the comments field provided; all we ask is that you keep things civil.
Did we get it right by eras?
Ah yes!- the eternal question- Marvel or DC ?
Betty or Veronica
Superman or Captain Marvel
… and a question that will never be definitively answered !
Your assessment of the various ages and the contributions that DC & Marvel made to those periods are probably correct. DC did produce more than their fair share of enduring characters during the Golden Age, probably their most fertile period- but Marvel/Timely had the most eye-catching ‘kick-you-in-the-face’ war covers of any publisher during this time & has stolen some of DC’s spotlight. It is amazing that Marvel was able to challenge DC with only three major characters [ Cap. America, Torch & Subby ] and these Schomburg covers led the way AND still pack a punch today! The Golden Age was densely packed with great characters and art issued by all the major players, & I am happy to hear that you gave DELL a mention as they probably DID outsell everybody else back then- but more should have been said about FAWCETT, as they seriously gave DC a wallop with Captain Marvel & DC was never able to sue him out of existence!
Since your focus is on super-heroes, I am not surprised that you gave the fifties a miss [ other than mentioning Showcase #4 ]. This is actually one of the most fertile grounds of imagination ever put to paper during any of the comic book ages & most publishers roared full-steam ahead until crashing full tilt into the Comics Code in 1955. Some absolutely wonderful stuff in all genres, by all players, with outstanding art by the Kuberts & Toths & Ditkos & Kirbys and Krigsteins etc etc with some really good storytelling! This is when the publishers began to flex their muscles & produce books for an older audience, culminating in such classics as “Master Race’ in Impact #1. Since we are comparing Marvel to DC, I believe that DC had the more accomplished art & stories at this time period, but Marvel was once again, violent & brash and their books grab you by the throat when you open them! There is not a single DC war or horror book that comes close to the power exuded by a Marvel war or horror book at this time. The darkness and violence in those Marvel comics still simmers to this day!
Yep, the 1960’s belonged to Marvel. You are correct- DC can not compete in this time period. I really like Adam Strange in Mystery in Space and love Infantino & Kane on Flash & Green Lantern respectively, but this age belongs to Marvel! Not everything that Marvel produced in the Silver Age is brilliant, but the sum total of their effort eclipses everybody else.
I read everything from pulps to paperbacks, comics to military modelling magazines & do not fixate on any one publisher. I even read dime novels & philatelic reference books !!! However, my fondness for Marvel comes from the 1970’s, when as a young boy, I began to buy any comic on the newsstand that had a monster on it! That means I was fed a small but important diet of WHERE MONSTERS DWELL & WEREWOLF BY NIGHT. WBM #8 is a very important issue for me, as KROGG, The Lurker from Beyond actually EATS two hunters, thus serving me my first dose of comic book horror !!! Very importantly- I also read the letters pages and editorials where Stan Lee’s exuberant personality sucked me into the Marvel Universe fully and completely! I read a few DC comics at this time and found them COLD, especially the letters pages & editorials, where the editors & staff came across as stern high school teachers talking DOWN to their students. I could not warm up to DC because of this attitude and always [ probably unfairly ] considered them the lesser publisher. I could not find too many US comics where I lived in England, & it was not until I came to Canada in 1980 that my education began fully. I was able to find lots of 1970’s back issues in many used book stores in my area & was able to sample the best of that decade for about 40-60 cents a book! I read Marvel and DC, plus anything else I could find, but always preferred Marvel due to that very early & pleasant ‘indoctrination’ into the Marvel Universe by Stan Lee. Stan made me look at his comics, & I liked what I saw. DC never made me feel as comfortable in their universe & I have never valued them as much as Marvel.
As far as the modern era is concerned, I am quite bummed out. Comics have not been the same since the mid-1990’s & I find myself losing interest in both the Marvel and DC universes. In spite of how pretty the books look, I find them shallow & unsatisfying. They are way too expensive for the few minutes of entertainment that they offer. A single issue is usually meaningless, a small fragment of a larger story, that by itself gives you nothing! Jim Shooter had it straight back in the 1970’s & 1980’s- he mandated that every issue of every comic should be understood by any new reader picking up that title for the first time. It worked. I know Shooter is a controversial figure in the comics world, but this edict was right on the money. Even Stan Lee preached that every issue should have a beginning, a middle & an end, even if it was part of a longer story arc and should offer some entertainment on it’s own! I have no idea what is happening in most Marvel comics nowadays & I have virtually NO INTEREST in anything that DC has done this century! I got the bug a few years ago & initiated a monthly pull list with my LCS, but have become so annoyed with the expense and lack of satisfaction with what I am getting, that I have trimmed that list down to about six books, some of which will be cut loose shortly too.
I believe that the era of the superhero is coming to a close. I think the genre has run it’s course. No-one knows what to do with these characters any more & they will probably die off when the movie going public stops paying to see the latest block-buster. What can Batman or Superman offer you at this time ? What can be done with these characters that has not been done before ?? Sure, we can get new artists to come along & dazzle us with their skills, but what about the story ?? What about the story ???
I live vicariously through back issues from a different time. I focus on publications that actually offer me some entertainment , which in my case involves comic books from the 1950’s [or newspaper strip reprints] & general fiction pulp magazines from the 1920’s & 1930’s. Excelsior !!
LF
Well spoke indeed! As much as I have always been a Marvel fan (RFO, KOF), I have also been trolling around in the DC Universe when the artists were best, because the writing, unlike Marvel, just had no soul or realism behind the hero motif in the 60’s. The first comic I ever owned was actually a copy of the Classics Illustrated Journey to the Centre of the Earth which was one of the prizes at a friend’s birthday party when I was in grade one. The kid’s mother asked me why I picked that one and I had to admit, to an adult no less, that it was because of the battling plesiosaur and ichthyosaur on the cover. Bad move. Everybody moved away from me. Suddenly I felt like a six-year-old freak. They really hadn’t embraced even the nerd terminology then, let alone the geek. Then, on a family camping trip to the Finger Lakes, on the shores of Lake Champlain, in a little chip stand, cum newstand, I saw Incredible Hulk #6 on the spinner rack and bought it with my own money! It wasn’t long before I was hooked on the Fantastic Four, the Mighty Thor and all the other great adjectival Marvel heroes! But, meanwhile, DC, apart from Batman, started tossing out things like Joe Kubert’s Enemy Ace and, later, his Tarzan.. Then along came great DC books, like Swamp Thing, The Shadow and the whole Vertigo line and my tastes wavered all over the map suddenly, but it was always the art first with, hopefully, a story to match. So, to all of the DC lovers who disdain the Marvelites, just take a look at our stuff and we’ll look at yours. Did that really come out right? I’m just boppin’ at the comic book hop!
Marvel started publishing the Marvel Essentials and I could finally afford all those old publications but in black and white on newsprint. The DC starting publishing the old comics in a similar collected format. I thought Green Lantern and Flash would be like science books. They seemed that way to me when I was seven years old. However, unlike some but not all of Marvels they lacked an enduring quality, a quality that makes them interesting at any point in life. I read the collected Flash, Green Lantern and several others but I stopped with Elongated Man. I finally realized that I wasn’t getting any joy from the silver age DC reprints and they were turning my brain to mush. I didn’t get that feeling with the Marvels. I could almost always find something in each issue to enjoy– even though they were originally meant for very young readers.
Mel-
I grew up on Classics Illustrated ! I never bought any- I bummed them from a friend whose big brother had a subscription- he ended up giving me a few issues that he did not want/ did not like & I thus managed to get a copy of THE CANTERVILLE GHOST, which was never issued by Gilberton in North America. I remember reading ‘The Red Badge of Courage’, ‘Bring ’em Back Alive’ & ‘Wild Animals I have Known’ among others. ‘Wild Animals..’ has super art by L.B.Cole dontcha know?- Heritage sold a few original art pages from this book a few years ago and like a dope, I did not bid [ because I was bidding on other urgently needed stuff!]. They went quite cheap!-what a damn dope I was !!
The first page of art that I ever bought [ for $30.00 US at a Pulpcon auction back in 1990 ] was a page from ‘Last of the Mohicans’ by John Severin. The page is beautifully hand coloured to match the finished, printed page. It may have been used as a colour guide. I have no clue as to how Gilberton worked & would love to know more about them. CLASSICS ILLUSTRATED needs more love- they are not dead, people still bid on them, but prices have stayed down for years. I have recently managed to get both editions of GREAT EXPECTATIONS for way less than guide in really nice shape! This used to be a holy grail back in the late 1960’s & into the 1970’s, with dealers using the cover as a hook to draw people to their ads in Overstreet! This is a really super series of books that holds lots of hidden gems, such as Kirby, Severin, Williamson & Crandall art! How can you fixate on just Marvel or DC when there is so much other good stuff out there to explore ?!?
I have a fondness for Marvel, but will read anything worthwhile, even DC ! I am an omnivore & will try just about any material. Back in the day when comics were cheap, I could fill shopping bags with heaps of post-war books from all genres & give them the old college try. War, Crime, Hero, Sci-Fi, Humour, even romance books all found their way into my collection! [ I love Bill Ward’s work pre-Cracked magazine!- Torchy etc ]. I was attempting to complete several runs of Silver Age Marvel books & would run around conventions with my Overstreet & my want list tucked inside, but would be distracted by all kinds of cheap books that I had never seen before. How could I say no to this stuff?? I did manage to complete my Silver Age runs eventually, but did this by ‘running the circuit’ of local comic book stores between Toronto & Hamilton for several years. The conventions supplied me with cheap fifties comics, the local comic stores supplied me with cheap silver age Marvels! It is a shame that kids today will not live to experience pulling a VF Strange Tales #135 out of a local comic book stores’ back issue bin for only $4.00 !!! Now, you have to bid for the damn thing on ebay or Heritage AND pay shipping for it ! This is our current reality !
I love Marvel & put them above DC, but will read and collect anything that turns my crank! Modern superhero comics no longer turn my crank & I am giving up on most of them, regardless of publisher. This frees up money to chase down more vintage comics & pulp magazines, and as I write- the last issue of SKY ACES from 1941 and an issue of ADVENTURE from 1923 with a WW1 story by Leonard Nason that has somehow eluded me til now are on their way to me. I can hardly wait!
Ron-
I picked up many of those reprint volumes too. Reprint collections are a big part of my life & sometimes they are the only way to get a rare or expensive book into your collection. I feel the same way about the DC stories- there is a sameness to many of these books & many stories are simply bland. I can read a Superman or Lois Lane book once in a while, but if I attempted to read let’s say, all the Superboy comics from 1962 in one sitting- I would probably lose my mind !!! Marvel is far more interesting, the art and stories have more ‘zing’, but that is not to say that everything that they did was gold. Marvel too has some bland spots- X-Men after Jack Kirby left was dull as day-old toast until Steranko & Adams came along, and Sgt.Fury is un-readable between Kirby leaving & John Severin starting up as inker! Since we are talking about bland spots, there are quite a few other 1960’s publishers who produced a lot of dead ducks- Charlton comes to mind with scads of mindless space, western & war books. If it wasn’t for Ditko- I don’t know if anybody would even remember Charlton ! DC may have been bland, but some of Charlton’s material did not even look professional! Hey, I am a Charlton collector, so am entitled to make such statements- but then, I’ve mostly fixated on Ditko & not much else. I gave up on trying to collect ALL of Charlton’s stuff a long time ago as I would be falling asleep just bagging & boarding these books! Yawn !
Dell out sold everybody by far in the 1950’s. Tarzan, WDC&S, Ducks, funny Disney animals, Dell Westerns
Hell, Harvey out sold the Marvels in the 1960 in its entirity.
Please dont forget the real history of comics Chris and Walt.
And how about Fawcett…. Capt Marvel killed Superman and Batman.
I love all the great companies, but reading any of it ,hurts to some extent, at my age now
I recently read some Roy Rogers. Funny how it stood up
Yep, the history of comics is not just about Marvel There were other big players too & they all have their stories to tell!
DELL had been around since 1921 and were deeply involved in magazines, pulps & paperbacks well before comics came along. When comics burst on the scene, Dell did not waste too much time creating superheroes, but whizzed around Hollywood & the newspaper syndicates securing the rights to as many licensed properties as they could manage. In due time, they had secured the rights to virtually ALL the animated characters that you can think of, from Mickey Mouse to Bugs Bunny, and many movie and newspaper properties, such as the much despised ‘singing cowboy’ comics that some of you hate so much! It is probable that Roy Rogers, Tim Holt & Rex Allen sold more comics than Batman, Superman or Captain America ever did, as they kept going after most superhero books had been cancelled. It is said that Walt Disney’s Comics & Stories sold in excess of a million copies per issue for several years throughout the early to mid-1950’s !!
FAWCETT had been around even longer, originating in 1919 and were a powerhouse long before Superman was created. Their pulp magazines are legendary and cherished by collectors today. Just try to complete a collection of TRIPLE-X Western in your lifetime! I challenge you ! It is not about the money- these things just do not turn up !! Ebay has a couple perpetually listed as DTA has priced them into the stratosphere [ a common failing with David T. ] and they will never sell at his level. If you think that TRIPLE-X is just western crap, then you need to go back to Kindergarten [and no!- it has nothing to do with porn either!!]. I have been trying to complete a run of BATTLE STORIES for a few years now, have most of them including number one [ I could have had two copies- but number one is not always the rarest issue!!] & am beginning to lose hope that I will ever fill those holes. Best known for their Captain Marvel family of books that was a thorn in the side of DC for many years- DC was never able to sue Cap. Marvel out of existence and the feud finally ended when Fawcett sold him to DC about 1956.
HARVEY began in 1941 during the superhero boom and published great stuff like GREEN HORNET, BLACK CAT and SPEED COMICS. After WW2, they changed direction, as did many publishers, and created a line of gory war, crime and horror books that rivalled EC. They are really good books with fantastic art by the likes of Bob Powell and Harvey Nostrand ! I wish that I had bought more of them at the comic cons that I attended back in the 1980’s, but these things were EVERYWHERE & we were convinced that their production runs must have been HUGE in order for them to survive in such large numbers. I bought many of them, but was complacent & many key issues slipped away from me. I thought that they would simply lie around for ever, there were so many of certain issues! We now know that the old Harvey warehouse had been discovered just a few years earlier, releasing THOUSANDS of uncirculated copies into the market place, many in excellent condition. The warehouse was not climate-controlled, it was just a warehouse- & some books did not survive in stellar condition. There are books circulating in a very nice but BROWN & Brittle state and some are moisture damaged. When you guys see a HARVEY FILE COPY being sold somewhere at auction, usually slabbed, please inform the seller that this is likely NOT a Harvey file copy, but a surplus copy from the warehouse that has lain in storage, untouched, for decades. The seller will no doubt be very happy to hear from you and will likely lower his price when armed with this knowledge! No publisher will store HUNDREDS or more copies of a single issue as ‘File copies’ & most file copies that survive are anything but mint condition as they were USED as reference by the publisher, or simply kicked around the office !
What is not well known is that the Harvey warehouse also yielded a ton of original art & production material, not just for original Harvey comics, but for many of the licensed newspaper properties that they had secured, such as Terry & the Pirates and Dick Tracy. It is likely that much of what is on the market now [ or that is held in permanent collections ] came from this warehouse. There is also a legend that the warehouse had a hidden surprise- apparently there was a skid of original DC art in this warehouse originating from the 1940’s & 1950’s. How it got there, no one can say. Maybe Harvey was storing it for DC & it had stayed behind, forgotten. Keep in mind kids, that original art back in the 1970’s & 1980’s had minimal value and even I was able to buy some Fiction House art for as little as $30.00 a page in 1991! In any case, the new owners of this warehouse wanted no legal entanglements with DC over this art and it was ordered to be destroyed. I talked to a guy who claimed to witness the destruction first hand [ by industrial shredder!]. If this story is true, we have lost MILLIONS $$$ in original art, at today’s valuation. If the story is true………
Yep, the history of comics is not just about Marvel or DC. There were other big players & they all have their stories to tell !
PS- I am on vacation this week & have time to ramble. You may not be so lucky to get such an essay next time ! Enjoy it while you can !
LF, I hope you’re on a two month vacation, your comments this week are a treat, your thoughts on the age of superheroes coming to a close are scary but not without precedent, as I’ve said before the mascot and logo for the largest entertainment company on earth is a character that nobody under 30 even knows about.
I’m with you Ron on the Marvels, I just related more to them, the character were more likable.
Dave, Chris and I should do a show on the non Marvel and DC comics, we might have to ask you to come on because I’m sure Chris will run out of things to say after about 30 seconds.
Thanks Walt,
The problem is… that everything eventually comes to an end. Dutch Tulip bulb mania came to an end, western comics [ & movies ] came to an end and more than likely, superhero comics will some day come to an end. There may come a day in the far distant future, that the society that is then extant will not give a sh*t about superhero comics! We do not know what the future will bring, but it is conceivable that our descendants will have better things to do than obsess about Wolverine. It is hard for some people to understand, especially with the obscene amounts of money that are being spent on these things right now, that it can all end with the drop of a hat! The bubble can burst at any time & before you can blink, your Hulk #181 is in the dollar bin, right next to that Roy Rogers #1 !!!
All we are waiting for is for enough superhero movies or TV shows to fail at the box office or on the various streaming services. We are waiting for the big boys to go digital and stop producing physical copies ! At that point, the countdown begins & no analysis of GPA numbers by Alex S. or no shill bidding by Chris M. will save the day. I intend to pursue my hobby as I always have, for the fun and enjoyment that it brings me, until the day I die. I am 56 years old right now & figure that comics will be around in some form until the day I croak. If not, then I have my vast collection of books, mags, comics & pulps to enjoy, as many of them remain unread ! Gadzooks!- tis true !! I have spent too much time buying stuff, hunting stuff down- now, I must chill and enjoy what I have. But, if the market collapses and Hulk #181 actually ends up in the dollar bin, then I will probably resume buying again, just as I did back in the 1980’s !! Either way- I win ! Read or buy?- it all depends on what happens next !
LF,
Great discussion about the cyclical dynamics of pop culture. Although I do hope that the floppies continue to be published. Sadly I think you are right on the money though. But, we survived the 90s boom/bust of comics, so there is hope that those of us who stayed then, will continue to stay on.
Dave! If Walt and I do a non-Marvel/DC show, the only reason I will run out of things to say in 30 seconds is because I was complementing Walt on his knowledge of those bygone publishers. But Yes, we will need you to be on the show as great fellow Harvey fan.
Cris O-
I am optimistic enough to expect the floppies to be around for some time yet. I don’t think that form of delivery will die out completely, just as hardcover books have not died out in spite of serious digital competition from kindles and other devices and online archives or libraries. My expectation is that the superhero will die out as the form is getting stagnant. Marvel & DC seem to have put all their eggs in one basket & all they do is superhero, & they do it poorly! Constant reboots, convoluted numbering systems & user unfriendly ‘stories’ [ there is no ‘jumping on point’ for new readers ] are not good for continued growth. On top of this, old farts like me hate the SJW screeds that modern superhero comics have become, replacing escapist fiction fantasies with political correctness. I want to see Hulk smashing Thor, not two same-sex superheroes kissing each other! I love superhero comics & still collect them, particularly issues from the 1970’s [which I failed to get back in the day because I was buying a ton of cheap 1950’s comics instead]- but the modern stuff leaves me cold. The malaise began in the mid-1990’s & it has now hit rock bottom. There is nothing new happening in the superhero universe, other than making them all social justice warriors ! I’m off at the next stop !
Why is it difficult to accept that a genre is about to die out? It has happened before and we are still alive! Do you see any western product out there? How about romance publications? Crime? Humour ?? Funny animal??? These were HUGE genres, selling millions of copies!-now they are gone. Unless something truly shattering happens in this medium and quickly, the superhero may be following all those genres into oblivion!
LF
I’m not worried about the fate of any genre. It’s the medium I worry about. But, just so you know, I still get my Crime fix from Ed Brubaker, my Humour fix from Eddie Campbell, my Funny Animal fix from Rocket Raccoon, and, if I’m ever in the mood for Romance, I just check up on how the Grimms’ marriage is holding up, just because they’re the cutest damn couple in comics today!
And, by the way, my friend, you deserve your own column with CBD, as does Bud Plant as well!
cheers, mt
Thanks for the kind words. Mel !
I truly enjoy CBD & am glad to have found you. I value everybody’s contributions [ even Chris M. & Alex S. !!!] & check the site every day. I am a collector first an last, and have never been an investor! I only carried my Overstreet around to make sure that I was not overpaying for anything. I do believe that collectibles should have their value and that value should be carefully nurtured & monitored. I abhor what has happened to our hobby over the last couple decades, particularly over two years of covid & see it as a massive detriment to the enjoyment of our hobby! You do not see these idiotic price increases in stamps or coins, two very healthy collector markets, but comics and sports cards are beyond reason!! I guess there are far more morons with too much money getting involved with comics or cards, as collecting stamps & coins requires some serious understanding of art, history ,methods of production & several other sciences to function properly. Our morons invest in slabbed comics or cards because investing in stamps or coins is beyond their mental faculties !!! Aren’t we lucky to have them on board ??!!
Keep away from my pulps ! Don’t you dare slab them !!! You can’t slab a Fantastic Adventures Quarterly anyhow, because it is too thick for the slab, each issue containing three unsold pulps bound together !! How can you slab a bedsheet sized Weird Tales or Amazing Stories anyway???? What about a Shadow Annual ??? Nyehhhhhh!!!!
I am cheesed off that two of my favourite comic book houses are on the rocks, and it is their own fault! If they die, so be it ! [ They won’t die- they will adapt. Superheroes may die, but not without a very long fight ]. I believe floppies will be here to stay for a while- luckily, there is enough good work coming from houses other than Marvel & DC to continue their existence. Just like the major model kit manufacturers have adapted to producing small runs of model kits, so will publishers adapt to producing & surviving on a slew of small batch comics. The better stuff will be collected in TPB editions & will also become available digitally. Have no fear, comic books as a medium will survive.
But what happens when Marvel & DC stop publishing floppies & only issue their books digitally ??? How will we slab them ? How will we grade them ?? Will anybody pay you ebay prices for a first edition DOWNLOAD of the new NEW Deadpool #1, where he is re-imagined as a disabled Puerto-Rican woman in a wheel-chair ??? Inquiring minds want to know !!!
PS- I’m still on vacation, that is why I am babbling so much !!!
Hi Guys! I am sorry- I should not have written this-
“Will anybody pay you ebay prices for a first edition DOWNLOAD of the new NEW Deadpool #1, where he is re-imagined as a disabled Puerto-Rican woman in a wheel-chair ???”
I should have written THIS instead-
Will anybody pay you ebay prices for a first edition DOWNLOAD of the new NEW Deadpool #1, where he is re-imagined as a disabled Puerto-Rican LGBT woman in a wheel-chair ???
Thank you. Thank you very much !
What the hell is an “LGBT woman?!” And, now I fear, all of the “QIA2S+” folx are going to boycott CBD because of their exclusion!!! Lordy, lordy, LF, what have you done?!
TTFN, mt RFO, KOF
How about ‘non-binary’ woman ? Is that better ?? I don’t know what I’m talking about ! When I was a kid, there were only boys and girls. Now, there is all kinds of stuff that I don’t know about ! I’m so confused! I know- I will read some new Marvel comics- they will explain everything to me!!!
Everything that you ever wanted to know about sex…..by THE PUNISHER !!!! Yowza !!
Wonderful stuff Live Frog !!
Finally, a comic culture show over 40 minutes, and worth its weight in comics.
Id have a rye with Walt and Chris anytime…
Thanks David ! Lots of fun- that’s what it’s all about!!
And now, a summary of the last week’s events-
This discussion was initiated by Walt & Chris O. after a snot-nosed DC fan-boy accused Marvel readers of being troglodytes.We have since proven that Marvel comics are better than DC comics by a huge margin, and that said fan-boy should himself, go live in a cave!
Although Marvel comics are currently unintelligible and confusing, they still appear more interesting than anything that DC is doing!
We expect DC comics to close up shop shortly & rent all their characters out to Marvel & finally we may get to see that
"Cat-Woman vs Black Widow King Size 'Bitch-slap' Annual" that was promised to us back in the 1980's !! George Perez- where are you when we need you ???!!!
On a personal note- I believe that all comic book readers are inferior to Pulp Magazine readers, & that until you have sucked in a few SHADOW, DOC SAVAGE
or WEIRD TALES issues, your lives are meaningless !!!
On the absolute highest level of readership are the guys who read the old newspaper strips. Many of the eggheads who read PRINCE VALIANT, TARZAN, FLASH GORDON or TERRY & the PIRATES went on to become statesmen, lawyers, bankers & even gangsters !! I doff my hat to the cream of humanity !!!
Excelsior !!!!
Mel: Ed Brubaker does your Crime fix: is that via his Criminal series? Reckless? Kill or be Killed? what’s your recommendation.
General comment; I never understand brand loyalty, good is good, doesn’t matter what’s on the label or masthead. Enjoying writers and artists get’s rid of all that weird brand vs. brand banter!
Great show lads!
Assemble OCGTC!!!!
(doesn’t quite have the same ring to it as when Cap lists up his shield and summons the Avengers)
I need the collective brain power of our little band!
I’ve read multiple interviews with Gene Colan where he tells this great story about him doing a full page splash of a hand on a doorknob and Stan talking to him about it.
Sounds early on…i’m thinking Silver Age…can anyone think of a book in their collection featuring a full page size hand and knob?
Hey Spider
Ed Brubaker first got me hooked with Scene of the Crime with Michael Lark. I also loved his work on Captain America (with Steve Epting) and Daredevil (with Michael Lark), but Criminal really cemented my love for his writing, and the Reckless series of original graphic novels is some of the best comic writing I have ever read! His Hollywood Crime Noir classic, The Fade Out is brilliant too! And let’s not forget Velvet! I wasn’t overly taken with Kill or Be Killed, and Fatale is just too weird for me. I’m not a big horror fan.
You really owe it to yourself to try Eddie Campbell’s Alec: The Years Have Pants for some of the funniest comics ever written. And, in the Funny Animal genre, nothing beats Skotie Young’s Rocket Raccoon! He’s rude and crude and funny as hell!
Spider-
I recall that ‘hand on doorknob’ story too. I’m not sure if the source was ever revealed, but it may not be a superhero story. It could be one of the many pre-hero stories that Gene did for Marvel in the late 1950’s or even something from Warren’s Eerie or Creepy, where he was working before he began his celebrated 80 issue gig on Daredevil. I am including a link to a possible source that I have found online. Hope it works for you-
https://books.google.ca/books?id=1G2qDgAAQBAJ&pg=PA6&lpg=PA6&dq=gene+colan+hand+on+door+splash&source=bl&ots=hpgVBcY-PH&sig=ACfU3U2XhN4akzydqN0pXujKNvvqfR5OWQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi-t_ad-q36AhUUlIkEHffYA2MQ6AF6BAgcEAM#v=onepage&q=gene%20colan%20hand%20on%20door%20splash&f=false
Scroll down a bit & you will see a splash for a pre-hero mystery story called ‘Behind the Dreadful Door’. That may be your answer, if you can find the rest of that story.
According to Grand Comics Database, the story ‘Behind the Dreadful Door’ appeared in Strange Tales #97 from 1962 & was reprinted in Weird Wonder Tales #21 in 1973 [ with alterations to the art, now including Dr. Druid ]. I hope that I am not sending you down the wrong path. Lemme know what you find out.
I have Strange Tales #97, but it is buried somewhere. If I find it, I’ll let ya know what lurks within!
Toodle pip- LF
Here we go- here is the whole story. There is a hand on a door, but is this what we are looking for ?
http://allthingsger.blogspot.com/2010/04/door-is-always-open-friday-comic-book.html
I’m reading the Gene Colan interview on THE COMICS JOURNAL website. That ‘hand’ splash may be a hero page after all, maybe Daredevil or Dr. Strange. I need to go through my stuff- I have all the Dr.Strange, but never really completed my run of Daredevil. Colan did DD #20 through #157, I think. C’mon horn-head fans- start flipping through your books. Don’t tell me they’re slabbed! Crack ’em open! We gotta help spider!
The ‘hand’ reference is on page 3 of the interview, when they start talking about Dr. Strange
https://www.tcj.com/the-gene-colan-interview/3/
Thanks gentlemen. It’s definitely marvel, because the Stan Lee aspect to the story. I have heard that Doctor Strange #177 is one of his greatest pieces of work, someone, pull out that book and enjoy it please!
The other lovely story that is often spoken about when Gene’s discussing his relationship with Stan is ‘the car chase’ and him getting his ideas from the movie Bullitt – he is referring to his first issue of Captain America #116 (his run takes him through to #137). That one was easy to deduce and acquire…the doorknob, not so much. My pricing app says Strange Tales #97 is a moneter of a book coming in at $3,000usd for a ‘nice, tight copy’ in the words of Walt…mid grade is $600! You golden age boys have got tooo much money!!!!
I paid about $3.00 for my Strange Tales #97, but that was circa 1987. It is about VG if memory serves. Different world back then. I recall pulling a Strange Tales #86 in VG out of the back issue bins at Dragon Lady comics a couple years earlier- it was $2.00- all prices in Canadian dollars. Our dollar is going to hell right now!- don’t buy anything from the USA for the next little while if you’re in Canada !!
My ST #97 is in VGish and I got it for a nickle in 1971 at a Goodwill.
You see, Spider- we are not rich at all ! In fact, I am almost completely broke !!! You just have to be in the right place at the right time !
DC silver age contributions include Supergirl, Legion of Super-Heroes, Batgirl, Justice League, and the multiverse. My favorite genre of comics.
In the Golden Age DC had something to sell – SM, BM & WW. Timely had something to say! Dedicated Democrats like Joe Simon, Jack Kirby & Stan Lee were pushing an agenda – anti-Hitler, anti Fascism and anti-war. Cap, Namor and Torchie were trying to make a difference.
In the Fifties, DC sold bland, domestic, trying-to-figure-out-your-secret-identity tales while Atlas continued political stories that were anti-nuclear and anti-Communist.
The Sixties featured two towering political figures, Stan Lee and Neal Adams, who hooked the college crowd with edgy, relevant stories. The Seventies saw the fatal weakening of the CCA as ghoulish characters like Swamp Thing, The Punisher and Venom topped the charts.
The Eighties highlighted Miller, Moore and McFarlane who pushed Lee and Adams aside and pushed their readers into deeper topics.
In the Nineties, Marvel went bankrupt, DC went creatively bankrupt but not before giving birth to Extreme, Image, and Valiant.
Post 9/11 2000 comics are lost in a fog of confusion, violence and racism with competent art that has nothing to say. Oh, for the 60s and the 80s-90s!!
DM, I love those comics too!
DDDthubderbolt, great observations. I would add that with those companies almost going bankrupt in the 90’s, they were forced to change and we saw some interesting books from that time from all companies, even Marvel and DC. And you are so right about today’s comics.